}} The Toltecs refer to the Parasite (or Predator) the way societies refer to the Ego. Being a Warrior means (to me) turning the Predator into my Ally. With awareness and focus, the dog can wag the tail, instead of the other way around. THIS IS HARD WORK! It is not for everyone. It is equivalent to training a sabre tooth tiger to chase a piece string across your lap.
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Ah. The bringing up of the Ego reminds me of something by Max Stirner i've yet to read. Maybe someone else would like to read it too. It's called "The Ego and It's Own": www.nonserviam.com/egoistarch...he_Ego.html (i get a little bleary-eyed tryin to read long stuff online)

So you are committed to being a 'warrior' eh? Hm, well i've thought about that for awhile and i've wondered at this concept that so many of us accept and join with. And i wonder about the traditional context of the word. So anyway, i chose to move outside of that way, because i claim to be committed to wanting escape from perpetual war. And the word 'warrior' keeps war within it, even if the intent is supposed to be so different.

The historical context of the word, it seems to me, is replete with more than 500 years of force being sent upon traditional peoples over and over again, tho in different guises. So of course the traditional human beings had to meet that situation; they had no choice.

Myself, i see that i am a member of a group given the privilege to not be automatically "open season" due to my skin color. So, in *that* context, i see openings for something beyond perpetual war, aka "Us vs. Them".

So, i bring up the ideah of *orrior* or or-rior. i am into the ideah you speak of, "turning" the 'predator' into my ally, except i wish to go deeper --so i claim. First of all, i have de-constructed the predatorial mind-set of the aggressor machinery. i see that the human beings taking up positions within the construct of war and its methods are individuals, and that it is the construct, or the imagination they subordinate to (for various reasons and beaten-down rationales) which is the 'predator'.

As for the word/concept 'ally' i recall history again, and remember the lack of solidarity with allies once diplomatic 'objectives' are reached. Thus, we masses have been instructed to hate and deeply fear Russians in more recent history, whereas we were instructed to tolerate them when they were "our allies" in WWII.

You wish to 'wag the dog' (as in the film, tho a jujitsu of sorts), while i wish to bridge with human beings and inspire them to escape the stupidity of the same old game machine. Because i am not the only one being eaten. The rigid war machinery eats the spirit of its workers just as well, if not so pointedly.

You and others who identify with warrior (and in my view have been curiously conditioned to this by war glorifying society always seeking sacrificial implementers to its severely alieanted policy) seem to want a *hard way* of doing things. Maybe this is good for the business game---'we all need to make a living'...whatever...and it reminds me of someone i listen to from time to time comparing yoga with tantra. He said yoga was the 'hard way' to go about something that was quite "easily" found via his ideas of tantra. And so i wonder about these things.

i myself have learned to question the allegations that reaching through the haze of our separation is something only "a few" are "capable" of. i still see war going down. i still see armor up, fortresses of people bumping into each other and making treaties (not forgetting 'the trail of broken treaties') and "peace" with their White Flags out. Yet retaining the aparatus that keeps everyone separated.

Care to take this by the proverbial horns?

First off, the promise of freedom is available to all of us humans, whether or not we walk the path or do the work. We make a choice.

It is foolish to be jealous or covetous of the good fortune of others.

We each have to decide whether we really want to become navigators, or if we would rather live in a world where people's actions are always offensive--where we complain that someone was not playing fair, was richer or better looking or luckier, where we say, "Look at that asshole--he just cut in line."

Maybe try recapitulating those frustrating feelings; this is what I try to remind myself to do when I start feeling all flustered and disoriented.


:o)

Thank you, Indigo, for the "long" post. Thank you for your opportunism! (heh heh)

}} A WESTERN EQUATION:

individual works-expends energy in service.
individual gets something for energy expended (in this case: money).
individual buys items that are needed or wanted.

AN INDIGENOUS EQUATION:

shaman chooses student
student expends energy in service to both Shaman and Self both for the knowledge and wisdom
student becomes shaman and carries on tradition.
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i just want to point out that i suspect (and if this helps, based on my studies), that there is much more to indigenous truths than figureheads called shamen. For one, indigenous family groups are a broad diversity of methods in living. For two, peoples close to MomEarth tend, i feel, to want to listen first to difference, rather than close their ears as we colonized ones have been taught first and foremost (keeping our ears open only to what supposedly constitutes 'objective authority'). That is, i mean to say that *anyone* might be a shaman or have qualities of shamanistic style that the human beings would see value in hearing out.

This reminds me of the two-spirit walks-between people of whom i partially identify with. And i think the concept of shaman to many pushes us to think of only one or maybe two at the most of such persons in each community.

As for carrying on tradition i think that for their traditions to survive so prolifically that they had plenty of input all along the way. That "traditions" were not 'dyed in the wool' as we colonized folks tend to imagine. Input to the system was wanted i feel.

In the context of being smashed by invaders and their rigid values, such free-association-like input may have been forced to the wayside...my feeling on that. Someone should look into this----anyone know of anyone who already has? i haven't seen Vine Deloria or Ward Churchill take on this stuff, but maybe i missed something.

}} livelihood
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Well, we're carrying this on from the other thread...to me livelihood, i understand...tho within the context of our having been *forced*/compelled in various ways to go along with this program.

Anyway, i myself, as an "artist" as well, would rather pay with tools and wood, and get paid with a place to stay for a winter (i.e. an exotic villa in some far out country or something; hanging around with exotic people and such things!).

The cash thing keeps us aloof from experiencing the diverse imagination of the potential of human beings, is what i'm getting at.

}} certified instructor
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That one reminds me of the blood quantum politics that came down mostly in the early 1990s i guess. Ward Churchill took on that one pretty well. To me, this whole thing about who gets to "certify" us, and where we have to go to get such permissions, and then who can still play that game through and who will not; and how about those certified then not listening to "uncertified" input. And if the "uncertified" insist on bringing input when it's not "wanted", do the "certified" fall back again on their masters? I.e. the imagination that says "the police" are acceptable defenders.

So i'm seeing a framework that is being built up all around these ideas and how they're tending to get reduced from their potential to not only transform "business people" (who will, it is expected, continue to do their business, whatever it is), but to transform society and do naughty things like promote indepth liberation. But those things aren't permitted, and "certifications" can be revoked when you buy into that framework...i see.

}} firewalker
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So you have all of these collected fire walk experiences now. Yes, radical. Far out, even. Amazing. 'How does he do it?'--it's like those people who watch me draw while i do my art business. But it ends there. What did traditional firewalkers do the art for? What meaning did they gain? Were they mere figureheads of magickal mystery? Or?

}} And for any individuals who feel they need to defend this traditions roots (the Native roots, so far as it applies ) Please do not. I am A native to North and South America, A Mexican, Mayan, Yaqui Indian mix who lives in the United States And I was happy to pay for the continuation of my apprenticeships that my family could not.
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i see wisdom in doing as i have done which has applications beyond the reach of whether one is or isn't a native of one side of MomEarth or not. So i will continue as my heart moves me, thankyOu. (not forgetting that the infamous Dickie Wilson and many of his GOONs were also descendants of tribes from this side of MomEarth, and that they'd be equally happy for me to stop listening to my heart on these issues)

}} Why do it at all if it will not be effective.
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Ah, an interesting quest ion. The question then becomes who gets to decide when is effective? As things seem to be going these days, thanks to slick new native media, broad input is not as important as input from "specialized" persons holding "certification"; in this light, indigenous people here in the u.s. appear to be turning into just another ethnic minority, with their masses conveniently subordinated to being spectators of hallowed traditions which they have no meaningful input into, i.e. witness the usual pow wow competitions.

Tho i ain't 'native' i have native friends who are being effectively shunted away from the potential of these things by the hollowed out competition side of what that is more and more becoming. i can't say it's true of pow wows everywhere, but of what i've seen (and yes, i've danced and a little more) and what my native friends have related to me, its an interesting phenomenon. Similar to going to see Chinese or Japanese traditional dances which are repeated over and over again and apparently not only not changing, but not being meaningful in light of events going down beyond these spectacles.

My mind ain't made up on this stuff, so your/others input is encouraged---including dissent!

}} community as it now exists
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Yes, thank you for the pep talk. The thing of it is, must i subordinate to the Given norms? Must dissenters subordinate? It seems to me that by and large these constructs exist to benefit only superficially, while people with gifts gain the ability to survive outside of the slavedriving job market. Can a champion of one's own life experience enter into such an existing community and be met with the same type of respect they talk of participants holding towards them? Can traditions be adjusted to allow for truths not allowed in the larger society? i think not. The constructs don't allow for such 'freedom'. So the dominant paradigm is replicated while on the surface the alternative-oriented persons believe they're gaining deeply meaningful insight.

And then on Monday morning, its back to work and so on and so forth.

i can own up to my jadedness and cynicism because i have lived a life that has shown me these truths no matter the hype.

Your kinds of organizations are good for those who can keep themselves well within the status-quo; but they are not so good for those whose paths take them into areas not so 'protected'.

i have been inspired greatly by *some* native ways of seeing. Yet i cannot see myself giving up the heavily-challenged truths of my heart in order to play at feeling i have made a real connection with people who subordinate themselves so easily (so it seems to me) to these status-quo subordinated constructs.

So this is why i continue to ask these questions. As far as continuing to live here in this dimension, i have been finding openings that i have not perceived before, so that challenge is not so heavy; some native cards (superficial as that may sound) have been valuable--shared by an anonymous book lender.

Anyway, such heaviness as i touched on must be expected given the social relations which so many hold themselves within for so many reasons and rationalizations...am i making myself clear enough?